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     Wednesday, August 22, 2007
    Wednesday, August 22, 2007 4:15:41 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00) ( )
    Let me start by apologizing, (kinda), for the sensationalistic headline. I’ve said several times my purpose with this blog is to alter the  perception of what SEO is and what it takes to use it to generate money online within my own small circle of influence. But before I can preach I gotta put butts in the pews. That headline is a better pew filler than “How to Brand a Site”. 

    Let’s read on.

    For over a decade now, there has been a strange love/hate kind of thing among serp jockeys regarding the practice of securing multiple placements for one keyword on the first page of a search engine. 

    On the one hand it has always been categorized as spam and the perp, (if known), chided for such a vulgar display of their algorithmic wizardry, while at the same time impressing the hell out of the wannabes for obviously having such a firm grip on the dark arts as to command free traffic at will. A kind of upside down feather-in-the-cap of the person who could now appear to be allowing search engines to survive only out of the goodness of their spammers heart.

     It’s that basic premise of thinking it’s unfair but boy, we sure wish we had it,  that allowed me to justify taking the editorial license to use that headline to describe how effective branding your site can be.

     I discussed the power of being  #1 going way back to one of my earliest posts from last week. There is little that can shake the searchers perception that if it’s #1 it MUST be relevant, so how powerful is that perception if you are #1 -2 -3-4 and 5? Makes me salivate like a 4 pound dog looking at a 10 pound roast, how about you?

     I must not be the only one so desirous because the Guru received this email from a crazed fan just the other day.

    *********************

    I just learned about your website and a little about who you are. I was wondering if you could address a question for me, whether it be by email, or through your posts that I have been dying to know. If you search on Google for “SEO Book”, you will notice that the first result, www.seobook.com ranks #1 with a whole bunch of sublinks under him. How was he able to do that? Any thoughts or tips would be appreciated!

     Jeremy Morris

     Miracle Money Matters

    www.miraclemoneymatters.com

    **********************************

    Google is not spamming their own results and Aaron Wall didn’t do anything to “make” Google do anything. Google WANTs to put those multiple listings there and they would want to do it for your site too and I’ll explain why.

    In my opinion, Aaron Wall and the SEO book saga should be the classic case study of online branding. I believe any university that offers any kind of marketing studies and does not address SEO Book is doing their students a disservice.  He stayed on message, worked hard, played it smart and thus has built a virtual death grip on the SEO informational market. The SEO Book is the prerequisite SEO tutorial above all others. Good job !!

    He had a couple of breaks with the traffic power fiasco http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/blog/050830-152234 which gave Aaron the chance to look like the defender of truth and justice in the face of evil. What a break!

    Then there was another minor scuffle with a guy named Daniel Brandt http://www.google-watch.org/gaming.html and http://www.seobook.com/archives/000415.shtml

    Daniel Brandt had his 15 minutes in SEO circles by almost convincing us he was pretty smart with his whole Google is dying because of the y2k+3 theory. http://www.google-watch.org/broken.html But once the theory failed to produce fruit, we all pretty much realized that being smart doesn‘t mean you can’t be a little crazy too. I mean serial killers are pretty smart but you probably don’t want to link to them. So again, it was Aaron who was able to come off looking like the smart one. He played it well. And I always admired him for that.

    But I digress. The point is that he got a couple of breaks that gave him the opportunity to display very brandable qualities which helped solidify him in the market, but I believe there is no such thing as luck when it comes to branding. He was able to capitalize on those opportunities because he had worked hard and smart to make himself ready to capitalize on those types of opportunities.

    So now let’s talk about why Google would give a rat’s patooty about that.

    Google’s driving purpose with it’s search engine is to deliver the perception of relevancy to every searcher to secure their position in the market. In other words, if they don’t give you what you are looking for, you are going to be looking at someone else’s results, (and ads). So even though Google may be one of the smartest companies to ever exist in the history of human endeavor, they can’t read minds. Yet.

    So, when someone searches for something that is a broad term that could have several correct answers they have no way of knowing which answer is best for that person at that time other than having access to a lot of historical data that could be used to indicate a likelihood that one of the limited number of results they return would be the one YOU thought was most relevant.

    Let’s look at another example of branding. However this one has spent millions and millions to be able to have the same thing Aaron got for just  --- well --- a LOT less.

    Victoria’s Secret has a huge brand, huge catalog and a huge website. When someone searches for that term, Google has no idea of whether you want their catalog, their swimwear or their sexy undies.

    {I can’t provide you with the link easily because I’m in India and Goole  re-directs me to google.co.in and while the results in this particular case are very close they are not the same. Sorry, you have to do the search instead of just clicking the link}

    So, Google wants to do two things. Show they have the power to find just what you are looking for AND provide a better user experience than their competitors by sending you directly to the appropriate page instead of sending you to the index page and making you dig for what you wanted. SMART! Very smart.

    Now back to SEO book for a moment. The same EXACT principle applies to Victoria’s Secret and to SEO Book. Both have huge brands, huge sites and a lot of relevant options that relate to the broad BRANDED term.

    Do a search for books about SEO. Now there are no longer 5 results for SEO Book because that query is not the same BRANDED thing. In fact, seobook.com is not even #1. BUT when you search for SEOBOOK, Google knows that others have searched for the tools from seobook.com and they have searched for videos etc.

    {pack your bags kids, we’re going on a sidetrip}.

    Now for a little conjecture. For the SEO Book search, notice the two references to the same basic thing at different urls. Buy the book at order and buy the #1 rated book at buy now. This indicates to me, (the Guru loves arguing about SEO theories so feel free to chime in), that it is not them knowing what has been searched for as much as they are tracking clicks from links on the site. If I’m right about that, this is huge in terms of knowing how to structure your interior pages to build authority status. They wouldn’t have the data for the clicks on the page without the toolbar installed, (which I doubt Aaron has), but they would have referrer data either way and I believe that could do it. It could also be contextual I suppose but I doubt it. Searches or clicks would be much more reliable especially when there could be dozens of pages about videos or tools on seobook.com the same as there could be a LOT of pages for panties at Victoria’s Secret. The Guru wouldn’t know about that. He’s just guessing. : )

    So, there it is. He has multiple #1’s on the first page because Google doesn’t know EXACTLY what you want from a search for a branded term but they know the options to offer that are most likely to keep you coming back to Google for your next search.  Very smart for Google and a very good reason to build your brand.

    This is a perfect illustration of what I’ve been trying to get across in the last post I made about focusing on the people and the engines will follow. Aaron could have had no idea that by building his brand Google would decide to list his site 5 times giving him a huge advantage as a barrier to entry if nothing else. He built it for the people he could convert.

    Build for the people and the engines will follow.

     

     

    Wednesday, August 22, 2007 6:17:35 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    I heard the term "authority sites" for what you are explaining here. I actually have one website where Google displays multiple links below the first result but the search term is not a brand. In fact, it ends with ... ratings.

    I believe the reason for the authority status is because I also have a page ranked nr.2 for the same search term.

    So my guess is, that if you can get top 2 rankings from the same site for the same keyword, Google will give you the "authority status".

    I am close on that one?
    Wednesday, August 22, 2007 6:45:06 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    Hey, I liked that explanation. I wonder if it is true, but it sure sounds bang on.
    Wednesday, August 22, 2007 6:45:49 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    I don't think so Tomaz. When I search for "books about SEO" Aaron is #1 and #2 but in this case without the additional links. So I think being #1 and #2 is a good milestone on the way to the holy grail of being an authority site.
    Wednesday, August 22, 2007 6:58:42 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    Hi,

    Could you do us a favour and reduce your contents width -- I'm still seeing thin black lines when I look away from the screen. As a rule of thumb don't go wider than 1 1/2 alphabet lengths (I think thats the rule -- check out Mark Boultons website -- he's knows what hes talking about). After all we're the ones reading, not the search engines ;)

    I had a brief look at your code: ugly is an understatment, but I realize you're not a web designer so I don't blame you. However tables for layout is 1997. I think you're using some public domain or something? I didn't bother to look into it. You want your own domain lets face it.

    I recommend you download WordPress and get a free Theme (like Matt Cutts has done with his blog) -- it will save you A LOT of hassle in the long run -- do it now before you have more than a weeks worth of posts -- trust me you wont regret it.

    I'm just going to repeat that last line once more in capitals.

    TRUST ME YOU WON'T REGRET IT.

    Plus you'll love the SEO plugins and stuff -- see Matts blog for details on White hat SEO for WordPress.

    If you need a hand drop me an email, its a piece of piss so I'll be happy to help.

    P.S. I tried posting this comment a few times already and it just reloads the page with my text still in the input box -- apologies if I'm posting several times, could do with some confirmation of post if the post is being put into a moderation queue.
    Chris
    Wednesday, August 22, 2007 10:07:15 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    He's right about the site width, I also have to post a comment three times to get it through...
    Wednesday, August 22, 2007 10:08:32 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    Massa,

    More comments on usability improvements of your site: I have 1200 resolution on my laptop and have to do major left to right scrolling to read your posts. Plus posting a comment works about 50% of the time because your captch box shows blank or a missing image.
    Wednesday, August 22, 2007 12:24:36 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    Oh all right ! I'll work on it tomorrow but remember everyone I picked this one because it was ugly and simple to use.I wanted to stress two primary points

    #1. ANYBODY at any skill level can do it

    #2. It's more about what you say than how you say it

    But, it is also important to listen to the people willing to talk to you, especially when they are offering to help. This does illustrate that even if you don't know how know blog software works or if you've never done it before, don't let that keep you from speaking. When you talk to people with honestly and sincerity, help isn't far off. Believe it or not, there are a lot of good people out there.
    The guru
    Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:34:44 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    Those multiple indented results from the same site have a name I just can't remember it right now, but I'm sure somebody will chime in.

    It was my understanding that they appear under the following conditions:

    1. You have an authority site.
    2. The keywords used match your domain / title / or anchor text of heaps of backlinks (so that Google is sure that is the site the searcher is looking for).
    3. The additional pages listed have many external links pointing their way.
    4. The navigational structure of your site is such that those pages are clearly the next most important (as determined by internal linking quantity and also link position).

    Not sure about your toolbar theory, Google certainly has and could use that data.

    Another possible theory of mine is that they use their own search data, so that if someone searches "buy seobook" or "seobook tools" Google must know that these are the most popular pages of the site - especially when they combine this data with the above list.

    On another note; does this work to solve your Indian US search problem http://www.google.com/search?q=Victoria's+Secret&gl=us
    Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:34:42 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    1.you have an authority site.

    This can’t be it because you could have an authority site, (several in fact), without having a branded site. If you searched for book abou8t seo, there could be amazon, barnes and noble, waldens, etc, but there wouldn’t be multiple listings for
    Amazon.com
    Amazon.com/hardcover.htm
    Amazon.com/comicbooks.htm
    Etc.
    This is different. I think it does indicate that the site is an authority for that term but is more about branding not about an authority.



    2. The keywords used match your domain / title / or anchor text of heaps of backlinks (so that Google is sure that is the site the searcher is looking for).

    This doesn’t add up for me either. The domain is seobook.com and the term was seo book. I’m going to say EVERY page has the keyword in the urls and a LOT have it in the title and anchor text. With a site this size these factors wouldn’t really give Google much insight into what from this branded site might interest you most from a broad, general term.

    3.The additional pages listed have many external links pointing their way.
    Again, I don’t see it. I have no way of knowing for sure but with a site like this with a lot of really top quality articles, I’m going to say there are probably a LOT of posts with far more links pointing to it than the buy now page or the tools page. If this point held water you’d think that list would contain
    tools.seobook.com
    seobook.com/mostpopular-linkbait-of-last-year.htm


    4. The navigational structure of your site is such that those pages are clearly the next most important (as determined by internal linking quantity and also link position).

    Now,you’ve got my attention. I believe we have just been given some insight into how I think this makes the most sense out of the 4 options your offered from Google itself.

    The SES conference is going on in San Jose , CA right now and Rand Fishkin of SEOMoz glory, http://www.seomoz.com just gave an excellent report called The Paid Links Debate Rages On - SES San Jose 2007 http://www.seomoz.org/blog/the-paid-links-debate-rages-on-ses-san-jose-2007
    In that report Rand tells us that Mr. Cutts while answering a direct question said:

    Other questions posed to the panel:
    To Matt Cutts - can Google remove the ability of individual pages to pass linkjuice
    _
    Matt says that not only can they remove single page's ability to pass PR, they can also remove the ability of only certain links on a page from passing PR, and do.(bolding is mine btw)


    This I believe is the key. If they can make them NOT count, then they can darn sure make them count as well. Now let’s see if anyone even notices the potential impact of something like this, let alone agrees or disagrees with me.

    Massa
    Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:34:50 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    I believe that the name for these links is SiteLinks.
    I had a dig into what caused them and why Google picked the links that they did a couple of months ago when we got awarded SiteLinks for a search on our company name, and there are a couple of points I'd like to share.

    As far as I can tell, SiteLinks only appear for very branded searches - a search for our company name and one other word will bring them up, but company name and two or more other words will not.

    I believe that they appear when Google is convinced that your site is definitely the one that people are looking for when they use that search term. A search for [amazon] does not bring up SiteLinks for amazon.com as you might expect, because people could be searching for information about the amazon rainforest, etc. However, a search for [barnes and noble] does bring up SiteLinks for them, because Google knows without a doubt that that is who you are looking for.

    More interesting was what I found when I looked into why specific links were selected to be one of the 4. These pages are not the most popular in terms of number of visits, number of inbound external links, prominence on your home page or any other factor that you can control.
    From looking at the pages which were chosen for our site, and examining analytics of visitor behaviour, the only correlation that I could find was that people who had visited the pages which Google chose spent more time on the site, and visited more pages, than other more prominent pages which you might prefer to feature in the SiteLinks.
    The correlation was not exact in terms of the order of the SiteLinks and the visit lengths, but it was close. The discrepancies could be explained by the date range over which Google analyses the data, and also by the number of people who have their toolbar installed. The only way in which Google could have data about our sites and visitor behaviour is through the toolbar - we do not use Google Analytics.

    I was also interested in how Google chose the anchor text for the SiteLinks, and there is no pattern that I can detect. Sometimes they pick the page title, with the search term stripped out. Sometimes they will use the anchor text of a link, or even the alt text of an image which is used as a link despite the fact that the page is linked to in text form from the same page.
    Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:11:18 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    Very cool post JohnT. To the Guru, a discussion such as this, THAT is SEO. the Guru LOVES it when someone can provide real data without the emotion. You've opened the Guru's eyes to a couple of things he can't wait to try out. thank you~!

    so, I'm still thinking that the connection could be they are tracking clicks from within the page.
    >was that people who had visited the pages which Google chose<

    I think Google is choosing the pages that people chose. I think if you had 50 links on your index page, they would know that the tools links got clicked 8% of the time and that the buy now link got clicked 12%. As for the occurrence of two order pages, (one order and one buy_now), you would thing Google wouldn't want to display essentially the same thing twice but they are both showing up in the same list for seobook. When you look at the page seobook.com, you can see the MOST prominent link is the well positioned call to action graphic in the middle of the page that offers both of those links. It makes sense that these two would be clicked on a LOT since that is pretty much the focus on the site.

    Now, what about tools.seobook.com and videos.seobook.com. Again in the footer of the site are several static links to tools, videos, glossary, aff etc. When you look at them, it stands to reason not many people are going to click on aff or book because that is already displayed better in the graphic.

    I bet now you're starting to say ahhhhhh, The Guru can feel the heat from all the little light bulbs over people's heads.

    Ok, so you might say:
    "but guru, wouldn't the blog posting get clicked on a LOT more than even the tools links?"

    Maybe BUT, those links are all shtml a kind of frames within html. Google would very easily identify those because my experience has been Google doesn't like them nearly as much as good ole html. But even if they read them like a hot knife going through butter, they would still know those were not static pages and the others were.

    I would be willing to bet that if Aaron put another link in the footer that said like "Free TOOLS" at a different static url, I think THAT page would replace one of the other ones, (or be added to the list), very fast. Way too fast for it to be them tracking how much time a visitor spent on a page. I could be wrong because I don't know if they update these links like they do the ones that put the guru up there so fast, but it would be a way to manipulate the listings if you had something specific you wanted to push.

    So I still say they are tracking clicks from within the page. Anybody know why if that is true it is significant in terms of placement aside from the whole branded site thing?
    The Guru
    Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:13:43 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    Regarding what JohnT calls sitelinks: Does anyone have an example of sitelinks showing for a keyword that is not the company or website name?

    Also Massa, the site design looks much better and you fixed the left to right scrolling text issue. Still having issues with posting comments though.
    Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:22:05 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    >Still having issues with posting comments though.<

    I think we have it resolved now. I've been testing and it's working but you may have to click twice until I get some more time. You can't get to the top in a day you know. Oh wait, yeah you can.

    The Guru did.

    The Guru
    Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:01:23 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    I'd agree that Google is definitely tracking clicks within a page, but I think that the ranking for the SiteLinks has to be more complicated than that. For seobook, his 4th link is to /order.shtml, but I can't find that link anywhere on his homepage.
    Try searching for [blockbuster]. One of their links is to a personal queue tracking page, and the link to that is not exactly prominent - I can't believe that it gets more traffic than other pages. For my own site, only 1 of the 4 links appears in my list of top ten visited pages.

    I think that what they're doing is analysing visitor behaviour, rather than just clicks. You could get thousands of people clicking on a particular link, then not finding what they were expecting and leaving the site. That would give an inflated impression of the usefulness of that page.
    However, by examining visits of a certain length, either in time spent or pages viewed, and finding which pages those visits had in common, that should be a pretty good indicator of a pages usefulness, which is of course what Google intends. They must be looking at quality of visit, not quantity.

    BTW, I agree with all the comments about the site redesign - much better.
    Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:41:38 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    I can't really see how a computer can detect if a site is "branded". Isn't that a subjective emotional interpretation?

    Amazon can't have sitelinks because Google can detect that other versions of the word are popular - yet nobody would argue that Amazon doesn't have a good brand.

    Google has a 2 billion dollar brand (http://www.forbes.com/2003/02/21/cx_pp_0221google.html) yet don't have sitelinks because there company name is used too much as a verb. Interestingly, it is only because of Google's brand that that they don't have sitelinks.

    I think you are using brand as a placeholder for what you really mean, but I'm just weary of coining inaccurate definitions.

    A more accurate term would be unique authority - or something similar.
    Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:04:11 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    Interesting.

    How would the fact that googling (without quotes) "coolest guy on the planet" brings up Brad Fallons site with said subpage links?

    Because Brad Fallon isn't really branded for that... or IS it??
    Friday, August 24, 2007 5:05:56 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    >I believe that they appear when Google is convinced that your site is definitely the one that people are looking for when they use that search term. A search for [amazon] does not bring up SiteLinks for amazon.com as you might expect, because people could be searching for information about the amazon rainforest, etc.<

    When you search for amazon, all results on the first page are about amazon (the company), so it seems that Google is pretty sure that the search was about the company.

    One thing I noticed is that there is no barnesandnoble.co.uk or .de, but amazon has them. Maybe it's unclear to Google which domain to prefer for the sitelinks. or something else having to do with the .tlds?
    Friday, August 24, 2007 6:26:05 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    >can't really see how a computer can detect if a site is "branded". Isn't that a subjective emotional interpretation? <
    well from what little snippets of code I've seen there are probably about a million ways but I know what you mean. I don't think it's that Google can"detect" a site is branded, but I do think it can 'detect" when x number of people search for seobook and click on seobook.com they come to assume it is whatever name they use for branded.

    >so it seems that Google is pretty sure that the search was about the company. <
    Again, I think you're looking at it wrong. I don't think Google cares if is about a company, I just think they know that out of x number of people, a small enough percentage of them clicked on any url about the rain forest that Google then assumes the best chance they have of satisfying a broad term they don't REALLY know what it is you're looking for with something that is PROBABLY relevant ias to put the first result having to anything to do with the rain forest on the second page. The thing I find odd about this search is "where is wikipedia"? I would have though the wiki would have enough trust rank points to merit a first page for this term but I guess not. I'm still thinking it is the power of Amazon's brand that has given it so much trust rank for the term amazon that it even sqirts the wiki down.

    >but I'm just weary of coining inaccurate definitions. A more accurate term would be unique authority <

    I'll be the first to admit that maybe branded isn't the term Google uses, but nit is the term I was reaching for. And if you think branded is an inaccurate definition but unique authority sweeps away the mist of ambiguity, man, jay, pass that bong over this way!
    The guru
    Friday, August 24, 2007 7:19:53 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    >How would the fact that googling (without quotes) "coolest guy on the planet" brings up Brad Fallons site with said subpage links? <

    Actually, I think he is however unintentional it may be. I believe this search is another great example of the power of trust rank and how the algorithm has moved away from page rank and anchor text as we have all discussed it this past 5 years or so.

    Brad probably didn't target that term but once a few people who travel in his circles crowned him with that misnomer,(a misnomer because clearly the guru is the only truly deserving recipient of that title), that off the cuff mention was enough to secure him top slot for that term especially when coupled with inbound links from sources such as cnn and wall street journal. That while they didn’t mention him as the coolest guy, those kind of sites certainly pour trust gravy all over the plate.

    When you do this search http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=brad+fallon+%2B+coolest+guy+on+the+planet&btnG=Search
    Look how many people linked too him, {IMPORTANT ALGO CLUE COMING HERE---}, that did not put coolest guy in the anchor text but it was in the content ( END ALGO CLUE}
    What’s kind of funny is the people who went to the huge expense of securing those domain names, (indicating they WERE targeting those terms), linked to him and now he has inbound links form sites that have the keyword in the url, (which the gurus believes is more important than anchor text but he’ll discuss that in another post), essentially cutting their own serp throat and handing over the #1 which kind of knocks them out of the running for coolest seo on the planet.

    Anyway, that’s why I think the brad fallon site at #1 is ther4e. Now for why I think the sitelinks is there for that term for that site.

    I believe it just adds credibility to my theory expounded upon in the first post about seobook. First let’s look at the list if urls in the sitelinks, (is anyone sure that’s what they are called and if so, but whom?).
    SEO Expert, Brad Fallon
    Coolest Golfer on the Planet, Craig Bowden ... the Monday Pro-Am with PGA pro Craig Bowden, a really cool guy whose daughter is a year older than my twins. ...
    www.bradfallon.com/ - 86k - Cached - Similar pages
    Bio - www.bradfallon.com/bio.html
    Brad Fallon's Upcoming Schedule - www.bradfallon.com/schedule.html
    Contact - www.bradfallon.com/contact.html
    Google Crushing; News, Tricks & ... - www.bradfallon.com/coffee/

    Ok we got bio.html
    We got schedule .htm
    Contact.html and coffee.html

    Now let’s go take a look at his index page http://www.bradfallon.com and pay close attention to the location and the calls to action around those links compared to other links on the same page.

    Bio is right at the top and it’s easy to see how #1 new visitors would likely want to learn more about him and #2 anyone going to that page would likely stay long enough to read a little at least, so they would be beating that 3 second back button boogie. TRUST?

    Now, the schedule thing is right at the top left. Supposedly where the human eye is naturally drawn. Again, easy to see how a large percentage of visitors would click on that links due to it’s strong call to action and it premium location. Then we have contact.

    I think contact is the strongest indicator of some validity to this theory. Offering this link is not a human trying to pick what is most likely to be relevant to a searcher, it is a program making that decision. A human would know that is a waste of space because most people would assume there would be a contact button on every page so to offer that as a links is wasted space when you could have offered a video page or a blog or something. I offered this link because of the percentage of people clicking on it compared to the rest of the links on the page.

    Finally, coffee.html Again, very clever marketing the whole buy me a cup of coffee for a link. (Crap! I wish the guru had of thought of that), is brilliant I think. VERY smart plus the excellent positioning is bound to get the big piece of chicken.

    Good job Brad. I don’t know about coolest guy on the planet but I thin k he’s got the Guru’s vote for coolest SEO on the planet.

    That was fun kids. Got any more?
    No one has shown the guru anything yet to make him think maybe he’s missing something. So far it is just making him more convinced of his “they’re tracking the clicks on the links compared to the clicks on other links on the same page” theory .>runs off to alter many pages based on new theory hmmm, which link do I want you to click? <
    .
    The guru
    Friday, August 24, 2007 5:34:38 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    Bill Slawski has a great write up which seems to confirm your toolbar theory (and confirms the "sitelinks" label): http://www.seobythesea.com/?p=406

    If that's the case it would be pretty simple to set up a test using multiple IP's with Google toolbars installed, and have them all click the same links on the site, after searching for the site's name in Google. Google probably has a quantity threshold in order to be statistically certain that most people take similar navigational paths on the site.


    "sweeps away the mist of ambiguity"

    Haha wow, great phrase, you're not just an SEO Guru.
    Saturday, August 25, 2007 3:08:02 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    >http://www.seobythesea.com/?p=406 <
    Thanks for the link jay. The Guru enjoyed reading that.

    First I want to say that not only has the Guru had a great deal of respect for Mr. Slawski, (he's been reading him as bragadocchio at the lovely kim krause's www.cre8pc.com/blog/index.php fourms http://www.cre8asiteforums.com/forums/), since even before he became the industry's premier patent peruser and picker-aparter, but the guru also think the industry needs someone like him. Someone that will not only be willing to take the time but that can also "get it" once the time has been taken. The Guru has to read those things twice just to find the parts that are over his head :(

    BBBUUUUUTTTTTTT - in this case, there are a couple of points that to the Guru are glaringly obvious that the patents don't address as patents applications seem to be so wont to do. The most obvious oversight in my opinion is in the conclusion:
    *********************

    Conclusion

    It’s interesting, but not terribly surprising, that so much of the generation of these additional links are based upon user-behavior based information. The patent does note that it is only the top result they are showing these additional links for, so to have lists like this appear, it’s helpful to rank pretty well.
    **********************

    Of course it is only the top result because it has nothing to do with traffic. It has to do with branding. If you a search for cell phones, no sitelinks. Do a search for Nokia and there they are. Do a search for software -- no sitelinks . Do a search for microsoft or apple and poof! there they are. I'll agree that those are high traffic sites but so are the top sites for viagra or poker and again - no sitelinks. A search for Pfizer and whompf there it is. The Guru doesn't need to be confused by a pantent application to get this one.

    So, getting a lot of traffic is not going to do it. You have to get your site known as a brand so that when someone searches for your brand you are the ONLY possible conclusion.

    And I don't see anything in all the user behavior stuff that makes me think it is anything other than what the Guru already proposed. Siimply positioning your interior links in prominent places and with a strong call to action text that ensures a high percentage of the clicks from all the other possible clicks on the page.

    EXCEPT for things like the nokia results. Where are those results coming from when those pages in the sitelinks aren't actually being offered on the main page? Of course this is a redirect and that has to have an impact on how they would retrieve and value the data, but after looking closely at the seobook and brad fallon examples, I still think
    #1. the webmaster has a LOT of, (if not total), control over the placement of sitelinks and
    #2. you can get all the traffic you want but without making your term into a brand it ain't gonna happen.
    The Guru
    Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:26:41 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    Thanks for the mention Bob
    I saw bankrate owned sites ranking for generic industry related keywords with sitelinks even if those were not branded queries, like mortgage calculators, and they had another 5 listings on the first page as well.

    when these first came out one of my sitelinks was like March of the year prior to that...which would make me think that they look at internal linkage as much as click data because it would not make sense that many people would seek out one of my monthly archives, and I didnt write anything interesting that month either :)
    Sunday, August 26, 2007 4:03:14 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    >like mortgage calculators<

    I must have done 100 searches trying to find a non-branded keyword and couldn't. no bankrate there now, probably thanks to your article). I read the post you made about bankrate and thought at the time the sitelinks thing was a fluke even though I looked at it as a possible tipped hand. So, have they got the knobs set where they want them now?

    >internal linkage <
    so how does nokia fit into that? I'm not seeing anything internal going to europe.nokia.com from anything offered in the sitelinks. Soooooo - no internal linkage evidence and no click thru data from the index page either.

    Ericsson fits into the theory. all the links in sitelinks show up on the main page and could easily be the ones being clicked the most.

    cingluar same thing
    check out the pseudo-cloaking going on with cingular. Not your basic IP cloaking stuff and I'm sure it has to do with ATT buying cingular but I bet I'd get busted for it. HHHMM fodder for another article. or was it mudder? So, the guru was wrong. You don't HAVE to build a brand. you CAN just buy one.

    >I didn't write anything interesting that month either<

    Oh no!! no one said anything about I was supposed to write anything interesting :O




    Tuesday, September 04, 2007 1:49:20 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
    Massa,

    Not sure if you read this yet, but gives a pretty clear explanation of Sitelinks.

    http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=47334&topic=8523

    "The links shown below some sites in our search results, called Sitelinks, are meant to help users navigate your site. Our systems analyze the link structure of your site to find shortcuts that will save users time and allow them to quickly find the information they're looking for.

    We only show Sitelinks for results when we think they'll be useful to the user. If the structure of your site doesn't allow our algorithms to find good Sitelinks, or we don't think that the Sitelinks for your site are relevant for the user's query, we won't show them.

    At the moment, Sitelinks are completely automated. We're always working to improve our Sitelinks algorithms, and we may incorporate webmaster input in the future."


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